How to remove baffle?

[shakti]

I just took delivery of my first piece of vintage Hiwatt gear - a '71/72 SE4123! It has 50/71 date code 14000 gauss speakers, all with original cones and untouched wiring. Condition is pretty good - some tolex wear but not horrible, structurally all sound. It's a nice companion to my '68/69 Sound City with 17000 gauss speakers. That one is all very heavy birch ply and no rear port, and is extremely loud, rich and vibrant, and has the most amazing clean sound I have ever heard. This SE4123 is, by comparison, warmer and not as loud, more compressed in a musical way and better for lead sounds, and has a particle board back panel. They really sound quite different yet with some clear similarities. Kind of like the difference between G12H and G12M-equipped Marshall cabs.

The one major cosmetic problem though is that the grille cloth has been painted black at some time. It looks good from the rear, so I think it would be possible to flip the cloth, except it looks like it was actually cut out from the front(!), removed and painted, then stapled back in...! I have a new piece of S&P ready, but then I started looking at the baffle...and I can't for the life of me figure out how it's inserted and how it can be removed? It looks like it's nested in between the front bracing/edges, and the interior bracing? However, even if I could remove the interior bracing, how could I get it out with the joint reinforcements in place?

Help is greatly appreciated!

[OldSchoolDave]

I have not performed this procedure but, looking at photos of my cabs, believe you would first need to remove the battens along the perimeter of the baffle. Note that these dry with age and may not survive the process. From there, I think the baffle is screwed into the front bezel (but don't quote me on that).

Flipping the grill cloth sometimes works. If one was over zealous with the paint; however, there may be spots where it penetrated fully. It's good to have spare S&P on hand. And, a good staple remover .

If you proceed, please take and post pics so the rest of us know what's involved.

Dave

[Dr.HI-TONE]

lots of elbow grease!

A few screws and a boat load of staples.

It is a PITA

Sorry, I know it isn't much help.....

[shakti]

Thanks guys, but I'm not sure if I get it quite yet.

I am prepared for a ton of staples, as I've done this procedure on a number of Marshall cabs before. However, there are two great obstacles:

- first I have to remove the bracing around the rear edges of the baffle. This is doable, but I would probably have to remove the speakers first in order to get to the screws. Another challenge, as the wiring is untouched, and I'd rather not mess with that.

- after removing the bracing, I could probably get the baffle loose from the front bracing/support...but how to get it out of the box? It would be blocked by the triangular joint supports along the four interior edges, wouldn't it? I suppose there would be enough room to be able to get the old cloth off and new cloth inserted, but it would be a *really* tight space to work in. Or am I missing something?

[OldSchoolDave]

Unscrew the Cliff jack from the cup, remove all the speaker nuts and wire staples and you should then be able to pull each pair out and zip tie them face to face (you might need another set of hands to make it easier). This will preserve the original wiring & solder joints.

Once the speakers are out, you should be able to unscrew and remove the battens that hold the baffle. Some prying may be required and be prepared for them splitting on you (i.e. be prepared to install replacements when completed). Here's one of my cabs, as an example of what I'm calling battens and the screws that need to be removed.

Batten Details 002.jpg (270.16 KiB) Viewed 4820 times

I don't know to what triangles you are referring. Can you post an internal pic of your cab?

Dave

[shakti]

Dave,

thanks a lot for that detailed photo and instructions. You can see the supporting triangles in your photo - they are there to reinforce the joints (i.e. along the four short edges inside the cab). I don't know - maybe it's possible to slant the baffle just enough to slide it out? But then I'd need to remove the rear bracing as well. I don't want any of that to split....

[OldSchoolDave]

Ah, I see.

I've never removed a Hiwatt baffle, so I don't know if it'll slide out past those braces.

That wood can get like kindling over the years. There's always a risk of it splitting.

Dave

[mikhailwatt]

Once the speakers are out, you should be able to unscrew and remove the battens that hold the baffle. Some prying may be required and be prepared for them splitting on you (i.e. be prepared to install replacements when completed). Here's one of my cabs, as an example of what I'm calling battens and the screws that need to be removed.

I've never removed a baffle panel, but I have had to tighten up a loose one. I seem to recall that the battens are glued and screwed, so removing them would be an iffy proposition. But I have seen pics of a completely disassembled Hylight cab, so anything's possible, with a fair dose of care and patience.

[philmanatee]

It's been a long time now, but I replaced the grill cloth on my Hiwatt 4 12. I think that I had to pull those short bracing sticks out to get the baffle out but I'm not positive on that. I remember the cabinet was somewhat flexible when I had everything out of it. I also took out the wood box handle insets. I just remember it was an amazing pain in the ass and no one I asked had ever had one apart. It came out real good and is my main recording cabinet, I think I could still find a couple drops of my blood by one of the corners of the grill! Phil

[moseb]

This is how I did my '73-

1) Remove speakers/wiring
2) Unscrew/remove all 4 battens on front speaker baffle. Mine were screwed and glued- go slow and easy- I did break one. If glued, CAREFULLY use a heat gun to soften the glue. Once these are removed, you will/may find more screws in the actual baffle, screwing it into the speaker cab itself remove these as well.
3) Unscrew/remove handle boxes on both sides.
4) Unscrew/remove battens on rear of cabinet. I removed all four, but you may only have to remove the 2 side battens.
5) I can't remember but on my cab, either on the top or the bottom of the front baffle, the 2 corners were cut to allow the baffle to clear the triangle support pieces you mentioned. Working with the cut corner end, pull this end back and the baffle should come out at roughly a 45 degree angle.

The screws in old Hiwatt cabs can strip out easily- make sure to use the correct sized phillips head and work carefully-

[shakti]

Many thanks folks! Looks like I have some...err...interesting hours ahead...
The good thing is that the cab sounds phenomenal.

[shakti]

And further to this...I ended up selling that particular cab (sort of regret it, as it was phenomenal sounding) as I picked up a mint '73 DR103 and SE4123. I've had all sorts of problems with the "new" cab, as two of the speakers had a serious rub. I managed to fix one with the standard method of shimming the voice coil and applying acetone on the spider, but the other one was a nightmare to fix...until I discovered that the frame was warped! Probably has been overtightened or not evenly tightened at one point. The good thing is that it was very easy to compensate for once I discovered how to - just had to use a small washer under the frame on two sides, then tighten a little more on the opposite sides, and voila - it sounds as it should. Perhaps over time it'll settle into the new position. But I did discover how tight those Fane voice coil gaps are - the tolerances are extremely small, much less than your typical Celestion.

Anyway, onto the actual issue at hand: while the speakers now all sound great without any rubs, and the whole cab does sound beautiful and on a par with my previous SE4123, there is an annoying rattle at certain frequencies which sounds like it comes from the cabinet itself, and perhaps from the actual baffle. Looking inside, I can see that the baffle doesn't sit entirely tight against the rear battens at the middle along the sides. The corners are tight, but there's a gradually widening gap up to about 1-1.5mm at the middle of each side. The big question is how to tighten it back up? Any ideas?