vintageHIWATTconvention.com

Hey All -

First off I know this topic has been discussed about many times, I did a search on this site and couldn't really find the threads I remembered reading for some reason. So I think we need to make a sticky out of this topic or one like it. Anyway I was thinking I needed to change all the valves in my amp. So I was wondering what you guys recommend for both the preamp and power tubes. Also whether I should go with the 12AX7 in the PI or the 12AT7 you know, questions like that. I know you guys are tweakers so let me know what valve configurations work best Also my El34's that are currently in my amp are starting to rattle. No all the time but definitely when I hit the low G on the low E string they rattle pretty bad, I assume this is bad and that I need new tubes. I read something about adverse microphonics when this happens.

Anyway thanks for all the input!
Kam

lffish133 wrote:So I think we need to make a sticky out of this topic or one like it.

Well, let's see what develops from this thread and go from there.

You didn't address Modern Production versus NOS. That's a big factor, as far as budget goes. My general opinions are:

1) Throw as much money as you can afford toward the V1 preamp tube. That's the one all by itself on the left front of the chassis. A good (even used) Mullard ECC83 will really light up a Hylight (has a ring to it, eh?).

2) Use an ECC81/12AT7 in the PI socket (the middle of the group of three). NOS CV4024 (military spec ECC81) tubes are still reasonably priced.

3) The remaining preamp tubes can be Modern Production. I like the JJ ECC83S (spiral filament) tubes and have not had good results with the modern Russian made stuff. I feel that a good, quiet tube is the best thing for these positions.

4) Power tubes may have the least overall tonal impact and, fortunately, there are some good Modern Production ones available. The Winged =C='s are the favorites of many. I have had good success with JJ E34L (as opposed to their EL34 model), but some haven't. If you've got some cash left over, splurge on OLD TESLA or Mullard power tubes.

O.K. - opinions are like @ssholes - everyone's got one ! Let's hear yours...

Dave

+1 on the V1 comment. If you're going to splurge on a NOS Mullard, this is the place for it.

The JJs sound good, but don't seem to last too long. I like the SED =C= EL34s for both sound and longevity.

--mark

Thanks for the input guys, I'll check that stuff out.

Unfortunately my newly acquired DR-103 flamed out (cap job pending) before I could get into some serious tube rolling, but FWIW I've done a lot of it over the years with other equally responsive amp designs and have found to my taste the following favorites (addressing preamp V1 and PI only for this thread):

V1:
#1 Mullard long plate ECC83 especially 50's & 60's units. Most I've found have been Hammond, Sylvania or Fisher labeled. Save yourself $ and seekout OEM labeled tubes rather than looking for the more coveted Mullard label. The [little & usually very hard to read] factory and date codes will confirm Mullard mfg details.
#2 tie between Brimar CV4004 and Telefunken Ribbed Plate ECC83 (gotta have the <> bottom

PI:
Mullard CV4024 (no need to look elsewhere, as they're available, reasonable $ and the best)

Another great tube is the TungSol 5751 (RCA Command version likely as good too), which will soften things up nicely in V1 if you're avoiding too buzzy of a sound. I seem to remember it being best for P-90 PRS axe in Rivera EL34 amp, whereas I favored Mullards and 6LC in the same Rivera with a Strat. FWIW - My Jimmy Page Les Paul has too many variations to nail anything down at all. Any and every combination can sound great or awful... LOL

Keep asking Santa Claus for a Telefunken ECC803S but I guess I'm still on the naughty list.

Well here you go: http://cgi.ebay.com/2XNOS-ECC803S-ECC83 ... 1|294%3A50

Holy sh**!

lp59pete wrote:Holy sh**!

Ah, but remember, that price is for TWO tubes . In these economic times, it's interesting to see how some prices haven't been adjusted. Of course, there's no guarantee someone's going to bite on that auction.

Dave

that is crazy money for a preamp valve!

I have some telefunken medical grade ecc803s and I can't say that they impart any magic to the tone. If anything the glass is thin making the valves more delicate than a Mullard or Brimar.

ANOS Mullard or Brimar ecc83/12ax7 valves are going to be the best bang for your buck. I have picked up lots of them over the years and they seem to hold up very well.

Like Old School Dave said, I love a CV4024 (mullard military version of the 12AT7/ecc81) in the PI position!

new production SED =C= EL34's are great. JJE34L and GTEL34M are usually good choices as well.

Hi ,

I have a vintage Hiwatt DR504 (1976) that needs new valves..

My actual tubes are :
-2 Sylvania EL34 "Fat boy"
-Raeython 12AX7 in V1
-Mullard 12AX7 & 12AT7 in V2 , PI , V4.

I need some advices for the power tubes , some people think that if you're putting vintage NOS(Matched pair) tubes on the power section you will not have to adjust the bias setting...

Is that true ?

For the V1 , put an original Mullard will really change the sound of my amp ?(instead of some JJ ECC83S)

Thank's.
Have a nice day.

.

I need some advices for the power tubes , some people think that if you're putting vintage NOS(Matched pair) tubes on the power section you will not have to adjust the bias setting...

The matched pair is a bit of a tricky one. They can be matched when they are sold, but after a burn in they do tend to wander and become not so "Matched". Some folks prefer to not match them, as matching only came into play in recent years....The old fella's never matched pairs or quads, just replaced em when they blew!Monitoring of the bias is a concearn when putting new tubes in. Sometimes you are lucky and a rebias isnt required, other times it needs to be adjusted. NOS or not, they still need to be checked for proper bias, the best sounding tubes can sound bad if not set up correctly.

For the V1 , put an original Mullard will really change the sound of my amp ?(instead of some JJ ECC83S)

Not necessarily a Mullard, but a good quality tube is the best. Think of it like a bodywork before painting a car.
If the body and initial work is wonderful, so too will be the end result. In the amps case, V1 is the first order of buisness for your signal. As was said earlier, V1 and the PI are definate places to use good quality tubes.
So yes you will notice a big difference in sound if you are currently running a cheap chinese off brand tube.
But..A good tube will help provide the strong,even, brightness and responsiveness that your amp should produce.

Cheers!

It is quite unlikely that all of your valves/tubes need replaced.
How did you come to this decision?

Real Mullard ecc83/12ax7 can out live the average american male that eats to much fast food.

For relabelled Mullard tubes I have had good luck with Fisher and EIC brands. This may be of little help as this isn't anything new.

I would use one of your Mullards from V2 or V3 in V1 and stick the Raytheon in V3. The Raytheon should be a high quality tube either Sylvania, GE, or Mullard. But it is hard to speculate without seeing it.

For power valves. Matched valves is a conspiracy created to justify jacking the price.

Biasing............I have 18 Hylight HIWATTs and I don't bias any of them.........I run them just like Dave Reeves designed them.

Thank's for all of these answer !

So let me explain why i want to replace all of my valves.

My mullard in V4 died , and when i turn the "Normal volume" knob to maximum , i have no crunch/overdrive , and i'm in the "hi" input of my Hiwatt , do you think that's normal ?

And another problem , i can play with my amp at noon on the master , and have a completly normal Bedroom volume...
(Power tubes are the problem no ?)

Cheers !

Lands-end wrote: (Power tubes are the problem no ?)

Could be, but that's not the only possibility.

Before spending a bundle of money, buy a cheap pair of JJ E34L's or maybe spring a few bucks/euros/pounds more for some =C='s. See if changing the power tubes resolves the issue.

For what it's worth, in all the years I've been using tube amps (um...........over 40 now ), I've never seen a wholesale tube replacement required. That's not to say that some repair folks don't replace 'em all to make their lives easier. But, the chances of all your tubes wearing out simultaneously are even lower than my odds of winning big at the blackjack tables tonight.

Live from Las Vegas,
Dave