Keep my '72 DR504 or take back my '71 DR103 ?

[billou_35]

Hello Gentlemen,

I already asked the questions in another forum but this is the best place here to reach Hiwatt experts. Many of you have already answered but I put new questions at the end. Many many many thanks to you for your help. I really appreciate. Here we go :

What I forgot to precise is that I got to sell some amps from my collection (17 amps : Fenders, Vox JMI, Marshalls, Selmers, Hiwatt, Carlsbros, Impact by Status (Sound City), ...) and the Hiwatt amp is really the amp I'm not totally satisfied with but that I cannot let go : afraid to never be able to find another one but I got to know if I got to sell it or not.

I always had a dilemma with Hiwatt amps, kind of Love / Hate relationship... : I have nearly orgasm playing with my Strat on it with Silicium Fuzz Face or Tube Driver or just with preamp at low volume and master at half volume when the clean is compressing, even more good with a Colorsound Power Boost used as a clean boost for an even more breathing sound.

On the other hand, I always wanted a Marshall Plexi in the past for the crunch tone with a Les Paul (I'm clearly a crunch man, into Classic Rock 70s but also a HUGE fan of Pink Floyd) and was deceived with my Les Paul on my DR504 but should be the bias that is too cold... It is not lifeless but not that organic, don't really know how to explain this.

Then, each time I listen to "Echoes" at Live at Pompeï, I just cannot sell my Hiwatt

Anyway, I need your advice on a very torturing question I got.

In the past, I had a very nice condition Hiwatt DR103 from '71. There was a Line circuitry in the past I guess because there were two holes in the chassis at the back for jacks but all the components were the right one, period correct, etc... so maybe this was just a passive loop. Anyway, everything was original, very good condition, etc... During a "Hate crisis", I sold it to a fellow that was (and still is) in a Floyd cover band. I recaped it before selling.

Some years later, I bought a Hiwatt custom 50 from 1972. The cosmetics are not very good : tolex tired on some places, feet missing, back panel missing but the most important, the electronics are 100% original. I recaped it but that's all... I guess I got to add a bias circuitry as this may be needed.

Now, here is the dilemma... 50W is better to have the Hiwatt amp crunch sooner but in the other hand, a 100W version is good for guitar but also for bass playing. Hiwatt are often loved for their crunch tone but Pete Townshend or Jimmy Page did modify their heads so for me, the Hiwatt amp is more a clean amp, a beautiful & nice singing clean tone, perfect with pedals.

I'm more a crunch guy, that's why I choose the 50W version but I was a bit deceived... Maybe the only reason is that the biasing is too cold, I got to check this because I got a serious doubt but I wonder if the 100W won't be the solution to have a bit crunch, just a bit I know with attenuator (I got two Alex attenuators) and also more headroom for pedals and useful for bass playing in the future...

I offer the fellow that got my custom 100 from 1971 to exchange our heads... Of course, economically speaking, he will win some money on the deal as the DR504 seems more rare than the DR103.

I don't want to make a mistake as I won't find an unmolested DR504 that easily (I had it two years ago for 950 Euros shipped from UK to France). What would you chose and why ?

I precise that no, I cannot have both !!!

Thanks to you Guys !

Now, additionnal questions please :

1/ I wonder if the DR504 is really more collectable than the DR103 because more rare or not ? My DR504 is really a totally unmolested one from '72 but the tolex under the amp is missing as well as feet and also the backpanel.

2/ Is it easy to find an empty Hiwatt head cab ?

3/ In the other hand, the DR103 I can exchange with my DR504 is from '71 and the potentiometers are really like "swimming in oil" and the head cabinet is really in good shape BUT there are two holes in the chassis at the rear that are hidden by a new identification plate... The original plate got two holes in it (jacks connectors that were used for Line In) and moreover, as the serial number was strange (was more into '69-'70 range more than '71), the seller did try to add a digit at the beginning of the serial number which is (I guess) ruining the resale price ? The circuit otherwise is totally unmolested also.

4/ Tone speaking, I guess Gilmour is using the 100W model for more headroom but with 50W, I guess the headroom is largely enough for stompboxes ? I think Gilmour is using a SA212 in studio but in small venue, I think he is still using the DR103. Only for headroom ? I guess he's looking for power amp distortion and 50W is better to reach output stage distortion sooner ?

5/ With attenuator or not, for Live at Leeds kind of tone, would you go for a DR504 or DR103 (with attenuator) ?

CONCLUSION : : As you can see, I'm a bit confused... First, I had a Hiwatt for stompboxes and Gilmour tone, the DR103 was perfect for that. Then, I discover the Les Paul guitar and wanted crunch tone so changed for a DR504 for early breakup but was a bit deceived by Les Paul on Hiwatt : even with everything at full blast, it crunchs but not sure I like it so much : not enough compression on mine and surely logic as the headroom is huge and so hugely dynamic.. I think I expected a kind of Marshall Plexi compression with "Live at Leeds" tone. Lately, I tried a PowerBoost on it and it was really HUGELY dynamic, really closer to Live at Leeds...

Maybe one of the first thing would be to check the bias settings ? Second would be to try extensivelly the Strat on the DR504... Don't know... HElp, help, heeeeeeeeeeelp

[Dr.HI-TONE]

1. & 3. yes, your DR504 is worth considerably more to a collector than the modded DR103 with fake serial tag.

2. it is not very easy to find empty head cab.

4. Gilmour is not looking for power amp distortion, just a lower volume pedal platform

5. without attenuator, a DR103 will be a bit better for "L.A.L." tones, but either amp will get you close.

you will never get Marshall like compression from a DR504 or DR103 without pedals. Your idea that the DR504 would give you earlier breakup than the DR103 was faulty.

you should be clear now.

[billou_35]

1. & 3. yes, your DR504 is worth considerably more to a collector than the modded DR103 with fake serial tag.

2. it is not very easy to find empty head cab.

4. Gilmour is not looking for power amp distortion, just a lower volume pedal platform

5. without attenuator, a DR103 will be a bit better for "L.A.L." tones, but either amp will get you close.

you will never get Marshall like compression from a DR504 or DR103 without pedals. Your idea that the DR504 would give you earlier breakup than the DR103 was faulty.

you should be clear now.

Thank you so much Dr Hiwatt ! :D

1 & 3 : Even if the DR504 has no more feet, no more back panel and tolex tired ? Just to be sure.

4. Means that for you, don't care if DR504 or DR103 for Gilmour tone, both will fit the needs ?

5. Without attenuator at defeaning volume ? To have speakers working at full power and have the ears bleeding ?! What is surprising me is that when you say that the DR504 won't make the breakup earlier ? I thought that like for many amps, the 50W version has less headroom than 100W version and so goes into power distortion sooner ? Is that not the case ?

6. Last question please : I was able to have clean with a bit compression with the DR103 without any effects and at 'low' levels with preamp volumes low and master volume at mid-volume.

Again, thank you so much for your patience, I'm a bit strange when talking about Hiwatts but I am a bit mad with them and also, I was looking for an amp that was the Plexi in parrallel so was polluted by that... I think that, like many, I spent to much time making them for what they are not. I want to take it now for what it is : an incredible amp with incredible clean, that are even nicer with a powerBoost and that can accept the pedals so so so well...

Sincerly, thank you

[Dr.HI-TONE]

1. & 3. yes, your DR504 is worth considerably more to a collector than the modded DR103 with fake serial tag.

2. it is not very easy to find empty head cab.

4. Gilmour is not looking for power amp distortion, just a lower volume pedal platform

5. without attenuator, a DR103 will be a bit better for "L.A.L." tones, but either amp will get you close.

you will never get Marshall like compression from a DR504 or DR103 without pedals. Your idea that the DR504 would give you earlier breakup than the DR103 was faulty.

you should be clear now.

Thank you so much Dr Hiwatt ! :D

1 & 3 : Even if the DR504 has no more feet, no more back panel and tolex tired ? Just to be sure. Without doubt

4. Means that for you, don't care if DR504 or DR103 for Gilmour tone, both will fit the needs ? Correct, in that he is not trying to achieve power tube break up/b]

5. Without attenuator at defeaning volume ? To have speakers working at full power and have the ears bleeding ?! What is surprising me is that when you say that the DR504 won't make the breakup earlier ? I thought that like for many amps, the 50W version has less headroom than 100W version and so goes into power distortion sooner ? Is that not the case ? The difference is so small, it is not very significant.

6. Last question please : I was able to have clean with a bit compression with the DR103 without any effects and at 'low' levels with preamp volumes low and master volume at mid-volume.

Again, thank you so much for your patience, I'm a bit strange when talking about Hiwatts but I am a bit mad with them and also, I was looking for an amp that was the Plexi in parrallel so was polluted by that... I think that, like many, I spent to much time making them for what they are not. I want to take it now for what it is : an incredible amp with incredible clean, that are even nicer with a powerBoost and that can accept the pedals so so so well...

Sincerly, thank you

you are welcome

[thefatcyclist]

Keep the Hiwatt 504, Hiwatt for the Gilmour, use one your marshalls for the lester. seemples. Buy a Hitone cab for the cosmetics but keep the original safe.

[Bossco]

A DR504, Plexi & Vox (EL84?) would be nice enviable coverage for variety of tone solutions.

[billou_35]

A DR504, Plexi & Vox (EL84?) would be nice enviable coverage for variety of tone solutions.

To be honest, I already got them... :

Fender Deluxe Reverb BF '66
Fender Super Reverb BF/SF '69
Marshall JMP SuperLead '73
Marshall JMP SuperBass '69
Marshall JMP 2203 '77
VOX JMI AC30 Non-TB '64
VOX Dallas Arbiter AC30 TB '75
JMI (reissue) AC30/6 TB
Selmer T&B MKI Croc Skin
Selmer Zodiac Croc Skin
Selmer Stadium TV19/T
Impact by Status 1015 (= Sound City L50+)
Carlsbro CS60TC '69
Suprem 4x10" (German amp from 50s, 60s)
Hiwatt DR504 '72 + cab Hiwatt 4x12 '72

But now, I got to sell some of them... I don't have enough space for them all...

[Bossco]

Yes, I saw you had those; which is why I listed them and shoulda clarified by adding the humble opinion keep those and sell any of the rest as necessary cuz you're covered!