attenuator or not?

[thefatcyclist]

Hi all,
I would be very grateful if somebody could post clips of a cranked 504 at various master volume levels, against a fully dimed amp and attenuator. I am more looking at Gilmour type tones rather than power chords but that would be great too. This will help be decide whether or not to ask santa for a Weber mini mass 100. If nobody can do clips, opinion will be gratefully received. I have however made the decision that if I buy an attenuator the Weber it will be.
Thanks
J

[mhuss]

Hopefully, some folks will find the time to do clips, because opinions on attenuators are all over the map.

However, I personally find the differences more visceral (multi-sense), and I don't think clips will necessarily capture this.

FWIW, I currently have "in the laboratory" a THD Hotplate, a homebrew Air Brake, an Ultimate Attenuator, and a 100 watt L-Pad. I also have an original Weber mass (speaker frame style) that I use for a partial power soak. This last is very transparent.

All are OK and usable in many situations. Most sound best at light to moderate attenuation and get fizzier and more "transistor radio" sounding as you increase the attenuation to "bedroom" levels.

My favorite at louder levels is the Air Brake. I built my clone without the "bedroom" setting.

The THD is OK, a good compromise overall. I like it with my Marshalls, and I've used it for a long time with no problems.

The UA sounds good at really quiet levels, but I can't stand it at moderate/band levels - when you start pushing the little solid state amp inside it sounds really congested. I dislike the fact you have to plug it in, this means you're wasting fully 100% of the power coming out of the amp. You also have to remember to turn it on and off, as it has no indicator.

The L-Pad sounds pretty generic, in the "you get what you pay for" category.

I have not had the chance to try the full on Mass attenuator, but I will One of These Days...

I'm sure other folks will chime in with completely different opinions,

--mark

[mikhailwatt]

However, I personally find the differences more visceral (multi-sense), and I don't think clips will necessarily capture this.

Yup, a sound clip won't necessarily convey the loss of HIWATT "thump" or "kick in the gut" that can occur with an attenuator, or tone-sucking pedal, for that matter. I have a UA, but haven't used it much. Partly because I would need two for my stereo rig, partly because the rig still sounds pretty good with the master turned down and a clean boost pushing the front end, and partly because it feels like there's some loss of that "visceral" direct connection between guitar-amp-speaker with the UA inserted.

That said, I'm on the waiting list for a pair of Faustine Phantom attenuators. Hoping these will let me keep the SPLs somewhat sane with the master cranked, without too much tonal/visceral compromise.

[GigawattCustom121]

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[thefatcyclist]

Thanks for all the clips that just about wraps it up for the attenuators, now what about just using the master volume guys? Hopefully the mini mass will be as good.

J

[OldSchoolDave]

... now what about just using the master volume guys?

I think the Hiwatt master volume is very useful. Doesn't leave the amp sounding anemic like some other designs.

Mark had his DR103 clone running 6V6's a couple of conventions ago. That seemed like a nice way to tame the beast. Bias adjustment is required, however.

Dave

[lffish133]

I have a 504 2 holer and I don't use an attenuator I personally think it defeats the purpose of owning a HIWATT. I jumper my inputs, and plug my LP straight in. I put both brill and normal vol to around noon, then I drop my master way down for bedroom levels, I mean way down. The amp is still loud and sounds very good. Then you can mix your preamp volume to get just the right amount of gain. I love this setup because if I turn my pickups all the way up I still get really good distortion, if I turn them down slightly it is super clean, it also has amazing touch sensitivity. I think the master volume on a HIWATT works amazingly well.

[Bossco]

I have a 504 2 holer and I don't use an attenuator I personally think it defeats the purpose of owning a HIWATT. I jumper my inputs, and plug my LP straight in. I put both brill and normal vol to around noon, then I drop my master way down for bedroom levels, I mean way down. The amp is still loud and sounds very good. Then you can mix your preamp volume to get just the right amount of gain. I love this setup because if I turn my pickups all the way up I still get really good distortion, if I turn them down slightly it is super clean, it also has amazing touch sensitivity. I think the master volume on a HIWATT works amazingly well.

Have you tried using a good attenuator? Because you're defeating my favorite purpose of the HIWATT sound by not pushing your power tubes. I use DrZ AirBrakes (http://www.drzamps.com/manuals/Airbrake.pdfs) on my 100 watters and a Brake-Lite on my low watters to achieve the best compromise of acceptable output sound level and HIWATT tone and attack qualities. I'm not saying the master volume isn't great or is useless, but the balance of the two (m.v. & attenuator) is the best IMHO.
Cheers!

[lffish133]

I haven't tried using a good attenuator. One of the reasons I haven't yet it because I know the pots on all my volume controls are jacked, I just haven't had time to replace them yet. So I really don't know the touch that a good volume knob should have yet. Right now my mv has three settings 0, loud enough, and melt your face off. That being said I would be interested in trying one, I guess I just need the time + money for one That being said I have tried going the other way and turning the preamp down around 3 and raising the mv past noon, I liked the tone better the other way.