Speaker recommendation for Hiwatt SA212 and additional 2x12

[DucaleHH]

Dear all,

After I have read all the threads here for quite some time now, I have recently joined this forum and would like to ask a question which drives me crazy meanwhile.

A couple of weeks ago I bought a Hiwatt 100 Watt 4-holer, built in 1977 and also a Hiwatt SA 212 Combo, built in 1979. The speakers in the combo are old Hiwatt speakers but there were not original and one was broken.

My intention is to use both amps for a Gilmour-like setup which means to have a Fender Stratocaster plus a pedal board and then to use both amps for a stereo setup. The Hiwatt DR103 will be used in connection with an old Trace Elliot Custom Shop cabinet (2 x 12).

As it is quite difficult here in Germany to get old Fane speakers , Weber Thames speakers or anything from Reeves, I have read a lot of articles not only within this forum and have come to the conclusion to use either Eminence Wizard speakers or original Fane Medusa speakers.

My question is now, what you would recommend – following the specs the Fane Medusa 100 Watt is closest to the old Fanes as the resonance frequenz is at 64 Hz whereas at the Fane Medusa 150 Watt version it is at 84hz.
I guess that 2 Fane Medusa 100 Watt would fit to the SA212 combo which just has 50 watt output power, but for the 2x 12 which will be used for the 100 watt head, I fear the might get damaged and therefore I would go with the Fane Medusa 150.

Maybe I am completely wrong with my ideas and as I am quite new to the Hiwatt-world, I would be pleased to get some advice from experienced Hiwatt users.

Thanks a lot in advance!

[OldSchoolDave]

Welcome to the Vintage Hiwatt Forum!

I understand your concern regarding power handling but, since you're going for a Gilmour-like sound and you'll want the DR103 rig to run at approximately the same volume as the SA212 (i.e. balanced stereo), you should be safe with speakers rated at 75 watts or above.

SA212's are wired for 2 x 16 ohm internal speakers. Keep that in mind when you purchase. It would be possible to run 2 x 8 ohm speakers, but you would have to go inside the amp and rewire the tap.

What brands of speakers are readily available in Germany?

Dave

[Dr.HI-TONE]

Congrats on gettting two real HIWATTs!

can you get Eminence Lynch V12 speakers? If not the medusa should be OK.

My Fane Crescendos came from Germany. I would urge you to be patient and keep an eye out for real Crescendos. In my experience and observation, most of them are in Europe. I don't think you will be happy with anything less.

[DucaleHH]

Hi,

thanks for your replies!

I know that I have to buy two 16 Ohm speakers and that they need to be wired in parallel. Currently there are two old Fane speakers installed but each of them is 8 ohm, so they cannot be used in parallel but only in series. Unfortunately one of them is broken and I even don’t know the type of these Fanes. I will try to upload some pictures later today.

@DrHiwatt: At the moment I am absolutely crazy about Hiwatt and I didn’t buy two vintage Hiwatts but four of them: one 2-holer from 1977, one 4-holer from 1977, one SA212 from 1979 and one Hiwatt Hi-Gain 50 made in UK.

Actually the 2-holer sounds best, but I will keep the 4-holer as it is closer to David Gilmour’s rig. The Hi-Gain version is made in UK but sounds not very good. The treble response is significantly reduced in comparison to the vintage Hiwatts and the overdrive-channel is pretty muddy. I have got the original Hi-Gain schematics and it is not true that the clean channel is an exact replica of the old custom amps – it is slightly different. Beside that you cannot use the bright and the normal channel at the same time – there is just a push-pull-poti so you can just decide whether it will be to thick or to thin in sound. Generally spoken it is not a bad amp, but there is a huge difference in sound to the old ones; I will sell it very soon.

Here in Germany it is quite easy to find Celestions, Eminence, new Fanes and Electro Voice.
Looking on the specifications and based on the fact that I have already tried Celestions and Electro Voice I assume that the Fane Medusa would be the best, but I am not sure.

Regards

Thomas

[OldSchoolDave]

At the moment I am absolutely crazy about Hiwatt and I didn’t buy two vintage Hiwatts but four of them:

That sounds very familiar - to many of us, I'm sure .

Regarding the speaker impedance, I believe it would be possible to run 2 x 8 ohm speakers if you rewired the transformer taps. They could be wired in series, for a 16 ohm total load.

This summer, I did some work to my SA212. Frustrated by the fixed speaker leads, I decided to mount a speaker jack in an unused Power Tube socket hole. That allows for removal of the chassis without desoldering the speakers - and was a non-destructive mod. Note in this picture there seems to be a separate tap running to the External Speaker jack. This jack is labeled 16 ohms on my SA212. If you do use 8 ohm speakers, you could re-route those leads to the Internals. For your transformer's sake, I would leave the External jack disconnected (search the forum for another discussion regarding combo output wiring). Perhaps Professor Huss will weigh in on this.

Output Jacks 01.jpg (277.07 KiB) Viewed 2816 times

Here's what the speaker jack looks like from the other side of the chassis:

P7310087.JPG (97.85 KiB) Viewed 2816 times

Dave

[DucaleHH]

Hi, Dave,

Thanks for the pictures!
I have modified both of my SA212 combos and have installed a speaker mount on the unused hole beside the slave out. So now I can connect either the internal speakers or an external cab to the corresponding output jacks (correct impedance can be chosen). Of course with this setup it would be impossible to use the internal speakers together with another cab at the same time, but that is not a problem as I use the internal speakers exclusively at the moment. In case I plan to use additional cabs, I would implement your solution.

Regards

Thomas

[mhuss]

My DR212R (a later Hylight) has a normal output jack complement-- two output jacks and a slave out. I guess they figured it out eventually.

The chassis in this amp is HUGE, bigger than a 405, full cab width and 3" tall. This is my first 212, do all of these have oversized chassis?

--mark

[OldSchoolDave]

This is my first 212, do all of these have oversized chassis?

Every one I've seen has. I was asked by a dealer whether or not mine had that, which may indicate some didn't?

Dave

[Dr.HI-TONE]

Yes, real ones have huge chassis.

[mhuss]

...as opposed to false ones?

--mark

[Dr.HI-TONE]

Yep,the so called reissues use the same chassis as their standard head varieties

[[PJS]]

I would just order the speakers from Weber. Infact that's exatly what I did when I restored my sawed-in-half SA212 to it's former glory. The Weber FC-12 is supposed to be an exact copy of the original Fane Crescendo's, and Dave Gilmour uses Crescendo's in his WEM cabs...